Podcast | Season 3 | Episode 7: The New SEND and AP Improvement Plan, Absenteeism Under the Spotlight and Extra Funding for Sports

Transcript

0:03:
Alex Wallace: The government announces the special educational needs and alternative provision improvement plan. Persistent absenteeism comes into the spotlight, and extra funding for inclusive sport.

0:23:
Sam Powell: Good to see you again, everyone and welcome back to the March 2023 episode of the Schools & Academies Show podcast. This time we're joined by two very special guests.

0:32:
Alex Wallace: Shortly we'll be hearing from Sarah Baker, the CEO of Team Education Trust and Karl Pupé, Author of the Action Hero Teacher.

0:39:
Sam Powell: Having two guests for the first time it's going to be a packed episode, so let's just jump right into it.

1:15:
Alex Wallace: So 2022 saw the release of the SEND review in the form of the Green Paper. This highlighted a number of challenges to the provision of special educational needs across England. Primarily, these challenges were that outcomes for children and young people with SEND or in alternative provision can be poor and inconsistent across the country. Navigating the SEND and AP system was challenging and difficult for parents and children. And finally, despite investment in the system, the provision was not cost effective.

1:44:
Sam Powell: These issues run deep through the SEND & AP space, which is why we've recently seen a follow up to the green paper in the form of the SEND & AP Improvement Plan, which was published earlier this month on 2^nd March.

1:53:
Alex Wallace: The improvement plan was produced off the back of a consultation with the Department for Education, in collaboration with over 4500 respondents from across the sector, including young people, carers, parents, teachers, and heads.

2:07:
Sam Powell: With the number of issues haunting the SEND and AP space and the number of people consulted, it's hardly surprising that they produce such a massive document at over 100 pages long. Don't worry, we're not going to sit here and read the whole thing out to you. We'd be here for hours. But we are going to summarize the three key themes that are identified within and we'll make sure to put a link to the document in the description so you can go through it in your own time.

2:26:
Alex Wallace: These themes are to strengthen accountabilities, develop a financially sustainable system to deliver improved outcomes, and develop a skilled workforce with excellent leadership. There will also be significant increase to the budget for SEND and AP, taking the high needs expenditure to north of 10 billion pounds.

2:46:
Sam Powell: Increased spending is not the only change you should expect to see. A few more include the introduction of a new leadership level SENCO, NPQ, new national special educational needs and alternative provision standards, which henceforth will be just called the National Standards, and a new EHCP dashboard.

3:02:
Alex Wallace: To discuss these changes and the implications of the plan. It would be a good time to consult one of our expert guests this month. Sarah Baker. Sarah, thanks for joining us, would you like to introduce yourself for our listeners?

3:13:
Sarah Baker: Hello, my name is Sarah Baker. I'm the CEO of Team Education Trust, which is a trust based in Derbyshire with three converted schools. We also have a sponsor school. And we've developed a lot of partnerships and collaborative partners through our traded service. It’s a real privilege to be speaking with you today and be part of the pre-show podcast. The team for me has a real clear vision about meeting all students needs. Inclusion is at the heart of everything we do. So actually, this particular topic is really at the heart of our strategy as we move forward. And we're planning for next academic year. But actually, it's embracing the world that's really important to us. It's about every pupil, I also need to just say that come and see us when we're out and about at the Schools & Academies Show, because we do have a theatre session, ‘Everything everywhere, the power of the dashboard’, and I think you'd find that really exciting as well.

4:07:
Sam Powell: So I guess let's just jump right to it Sarah. Obviously, we're discussing the SEND & AP Improvement Plan, which is a follow up to the Green Paper released in 2022. Many people have felt that this was a long time coming, given the issues identified in the Green Paper, and have been following along closely with its release. However, for those not involved in the SEND & AP space, could you maybe just give an idea of the journey we've been on with its production.

4:28:
Sarah Baker: I'm sure alongside other trusts, we’ve engaged really with the consultation process and been able to discuss parts of the proposals that were put in front of this. That was really exciting. And as part of the SEND and AP National Network of CEOs where I'm one of the executives, we've been heavily involved in the journey with the DfE and with those discussions and the opportunities where the DfE has welcomed our opinions and our input. So from our point of view, it's been really pivotal that we've been able to sort of shape some of those opportunities. We're really looking forward to better outcomes in the sense of across the whole sector. And what that means for both special schools, as well as mainstream. But also, it'll be the devil is going to be in some of the detail around those national standards and the consistency. And actually those approaches and the implications for SENCOs. So I think as we move forward, it'll be really interesting to see how things channel through so that we actually get the best outcomes. I think we went some way when we had the children's and Families Act back in 2014. But again, there was still some elements, which just weren't working in a really collaborative way. So I'm hoping that the way that the journey has gone so far, the openness of the DfE has really led to an exciting time for SEND to be really an alternative provision to be at the heart of what we do. And I suppose something else that's really positive that's come out from it, we do now have a SEND and AP directorate within the department. So it's quite clear that colleagues are listening to us. And we have been able to be involved in those steering groups and roundtables. So, from the bigger picture, I think it's exciting. And I think there's a lot to come forward, from a perspective of looking at it from a trust point of view, our Trust SEND team have been busy, sort of looking at our own practices and the wider implications, and what that workload will look like for SENCOs. But also, as a trust, that's very much about inclusion, how the work we already do already fits some of those key areas. So for me, it'd be interesting to see about innovative solutions as well to creating capacity and provision, but also looking at how we validate some of the work that's already done, and look at sharing sort of best practice and how that can be scaled up, especially sharing that with our mainstream colleagues.

6:45:
Sam Powell: Would you say that there's a feeling of hope in the SEND & AP space right now, that this improvement plan could be the tip of the iceberg for meaningful reform?

6:52:
Sarah Baker: I would say definitely so. I think that's why I say the word exciting, because it's going to go one of two ways. And I think the drive from definitely the CEOs that I've been meeting, from the SEND and AP network is really, really positive. And we're really looking forward to, as I said, the detail really, then how that's going to be implemented and in a very meaningful way for that young person and their family. And ultimately, it's about making that difference down on the ground.

7:22:
Alex Wallace: And it sounds like the DfE has been really collaborative actually with the wider sector and during the consultation process, and putting forward this plan. We're going to see an introduction of a new SEND level NPQ, along with the national standards. And we're also going to see an amended SEND Code of Practice. How do you see this developing the role of the SENDCO? And fundamentally, what are the essential skills and attributes that this qualification will need to deliver for our SEN practitioners?

7:52:
Sarah Baker: So, personally, as a SENCO, when I sort of came through into this area, I think it was really exciting to have a qualification initially. So the fact that this is going on to the MPQ suite of qualifications, I think, again, I go back to that word exciting, because for me, it validates the fact that this is a really critical role within school. But I think we've got to step back and say that it's positive to ensure that that’s leadership level qualification, because leaders are the ones that are able to make the biggest influence across an organization. And so be part of that strategic decision making. But wider than that, it's really exciting, that SEND is going to have that level of expertise across all of the layers. And it goes back to every teacher should be a teacher of SEND. And I think if we can actually embrace that, and have that at that leadership level, then I think that's really important. I think SENCOS are going to have a tough role to play and are going to need that support to be able to go into the classroom and be that practitioner that can work across different subject areas, with teaching materials, feel very comfortable with an understanding of all the different needs of young people, so that they can really be seen and respected in that role. I think, from my point of view, not only have they've got to embrace the changes and bring that strategic development on, they need to be really good practitioners in their own right, to be able to develop that wider role. So I think those leadership skills are going to be really important, but actually then how they then deliver those, I suppose the quality of that communication and their own practice, they're definitely going to need some coaching and mentoring skills in their toolbox to come out to work with their colleagues and maybe a sprinkling of positivity because I think sometimes it can be incredibly challenging when you're dealing with different situations. I used to always say it's useful to have a magic wand as a SENDCO. Because you can then spread solutions which may be were always seen as maybe hard to reach those blue skies.

9:56:
Sam Powell: Thanks for that. Sarah. Speaking of different situations, lets just change gears slightly here to talk about the infrastructure a bit more. We know that the role of local authorities are changing with the expansion of MATs. Do you see LA's changing their role and functions working within this improvement plan?

10:10:
Sarah Baker: Well, I think local authorities will always have their statutory duties. And there'll be central to the requirements of what's being delivered. And I think it's important that we recognize that because they have their own local area SEN plans, and we need to be sort of working with and mirroring those through our own developments. But again, MATs are also positive system leaders. So we need to also think very carefully about how, as MAT leaders, we're working with our local authorities. And I think whilst they're still that really equal sort of sort of mix, those working relationships are really positive. And there are some really strong partnerships out there that really exist between trusts and local authorities. And I can talk quite passionately about, you know, where it's working and, and some of those examples of best practice. And we're always going to have to work with our local authorities around commissioning, especially around Special Educational Needs placements. So I think it's about that collaborative approach and being able to meet young people's needs. And if we're all coming at it for the best of the young people then I think that's probably the place to sit and to start from, and I think we'll probably get the best from all areas and per sector then.

11:22:
Alex Wallace: I suppose it’s about making sure it's not politicized, isn't it? That's quite a tricky thing at times. So last year, we saw the new area SEND inspection framework, how closely does this new inspection framework marry with the improvement plan? Are the two documents talking to each other? And are they working in conjunction with each other?

11:42:
Sarah Baker: So I think there is an alignment, and it is welcomed, and I think role of commissioners and providers to ensure high quality work and provision is critical to the sector. You know, there's the welcome of that challenge of scrutiny and the overlap. But we also need to understand that, you know, standards needs to be met. And we should embrace the way in which things are changing and shaping and moving forward, and the direction of travel. And as things move forward, we need to be aware of the fact that we might need to go back and review and look at how things move forward. But yes, I would say there's an alignment. And we're pleased with the level of scrutiny that that's being there for a challenge point of view.

12:20:
Sam Powell: Well, I think that just about brings us to the end of our questions. Do you have anything you'd like to say before you go, Sara?

12:25:
Sarah Baker: Thank you very much for listening today. And it's been an absolute pleasure to be able to share sort of the SEND and alternative provision improvement plan, I suppose ways forward and some of the questions that are coming out from it. So yeah, I look forward to meeting you at the conference.

12:41:
Sam Powell: So keeping the train moving around inclusion, let's now move on to an issue that predominantly affects the most vulnerable learners, that being absenteeism. Earlier this month on 7^th March, the Education Affairs Select Committee met to discuss the issue of persistent absenteeism, which has been plaguing schools across the country.

12:56:
Alex Wallace: I actually watched this meeting, and the numbers are staggering. According to Dame Rachel De Souza, the Children's Commissioner for England, some 818,000 of the 1.6 million pupils persistently absent from school were off due to reasons other than illness. There also tends to be a spike in the number of children absent on a Friday, which some believe to be linked to the fact that parents and carers are working from home.

13:20:
Sam Powell: Now, because we may all have our own idea of what it means to be persistently absent. It's important that we established that the committee views persistent absenteeism as people's not being in school for about 10% of a term, which works out at roughly seven days a term. And if pupils are missing 50% or more of their sessions at a school, then this is classified as a severe absence.

13:39:
Alex Wallace: That's not all to come out of the meeting. 25% of all pupils were persistent absent last term, and for some context, it was just 13.1% in the autumn term of 2019. To combat this, De Souza wants Ofsted to have greater focus around attendance and attendance data.

13:56:
Sam Powell: During the meeting both De Souza and fellow witness Alice Wilcock who's Head of Education at the Centre for Social Justice, raised concerns over the use of the Code B in reporting attendance.

14:05:
Alex Wallace: The B code is supposed to denote that the child is in another educational setting. Both De Souza and Alice Wilcock have noted that there is inconsistent use of this code when reporting attendance.

14:16:
Sam Powell: Official guidance says that the B Code should be used for kids who are involved in school activities but are offsite. Think of school trips, sports matches, etc. Wilcock expressed the she had heard cases of schools using B codes when pupils are being trialled at another setting. And on that note, I think it's about time that we throw things over to our second guest today. Karl Pupé. Karl, thank you for joining us. Why don't you tell the audience a little bit about yourself?

14:39:
Karl Pupé: Thank you very much for having me. My name is Karl Pupé or Karl C. Pupé FRSA. I'm an educational consultant, former teacher now and I've been in the education sector for almost 15 years, I've worked in numerous jobs and my specialism is helping SEND and SEMH children, so special educational needs and special social, emotional mental health needs. Say that fast 15 times! So these are children that have got considerable learning difficulties. My speciality was to help them. And I did that through being a NEET coordinator in alternative provision. Then I did a similar thing in alternative provision in mainstream schooling. And then I became a consultant after writing two books and on my way to writing a third.

15:18
Sam Powell: Fantastic stuff. All right, let's just get the show on the road, shall we? So persistent absenteeism has been a massive issue in schools ever since the pandemic, we're currently seeing around 25% of pupils being persistently absence, meaning they're missing around seven days a term. What do you think are some of the big steps that schools can take to help bring this number down?

15:36:
Karl Pupé: That's a very, very interesting question. I did speak about this in the Action Teacher Hero too because what we've got is we've got a combination of really huge macro factors, things that are happening in the world, combined with what's going on in the UK, and it's become a bit of a perfect storm. So just to give a bit of context on this. I remember listening to an educational podcast, I think it was the Head of IBM, I'm not too sure. Was it the head of satchel? I’m not too sure, but I'll never forget this quote what he said. He said, What the Coronavirus has done for online teaching or advancing technology using modern technology and teaching, what it’s basically done is accelerated it by up to 20 years. And what he meant by that was he was saying basically, along the lines of this individual, I’ve forgotten his name, it is going to drive me mad. But he said, when he was going into schools and talking about online teaching and talking about, you know, using things like Satchel and whatnot, nobody was interested. This was pre pandemic, by the way, you know, so pre 2020, no one was really interested in doing all this online stuff. But as the pandemic started to, or should I say the lockdown started to roll on, because people were literally banging on my door to try and get all this online learning to come around. So basically, it's advanced that so what you've got, there's a number of factors. Number one, the first factor I would say in terms of why believe absenteeism is increasing is Mental Health and the Mental Health concerns of parents, both the parents and the children. I was reading, the latest statistics from YoungMinds, which is the UK’s leading young people's mental health charity, it was quite sobering. So they did a commission where they're looking at they're doing reports about how the Coronavirus has affected our young people. And it's quite frightening. So they were saying, for example, that I believe one in six children between the age of five and 16 will have some form of mental health challenge, which is increased from one in nine in 2018. And I would say that this was taken during 2020 or 2021. I would say those numbers will increase. 86% of young people said that their mental health was adversely affected by the Coronavirus, one in three children that have got some form of mental health crisis, do not have access to NHS help, as we know because of what's happened with the cuts. Unfortunately, not to get political, but what's happened with the cuts over time. And also because of the cost of living and so on and so forth. We've got a lot of young people that have not got access to the services. And what that does is and I'm speaking as a parent myself, my child is quite young. But I can imagine if my child was a teenager, where you've got children who do feel concerned about what's going on in the world with the Coronavirus, and we're forgetting all the other things like the environment, which is quite frightening as well, the degradation of the environment. We've got the war with Russia, and Ukraine. So our mental health is taken an absolute battering. We've all suffered the collective trauma during the Coronavirus. And I think what's happened with a lot of parents and I'm not saying this is just the only reason I'm just giving some contextual answers here, is that a lot of parents are almost saying, Look, if it's too difficult for you to go to school, I’d rather you just stay at home. Because of the work patterns as well as the change in work patterns with parents, a lot more people are working from home, they can make those allowances. So what this pandemic has done is it's opened up options to people that would have not existed two years ago, two to three years ago. I think as well, and again, I'm not saying this is just only mental health, but I'm saying there's a lot of factors. I think what else has happened is this disillusionment and from our young people in regards to education, especially when we're looking at the cost of living crisis, the inflation, the housing crisis, as well. And I deal with a lot of generations of students who you know, maybe I’m talking to fellow Millennials here but we were almost sold a dream where you say, you know, you go to uni, get yourself a good job, you'll get yourself a house, a nice pension, a nice car, you know, have a holiday, have 2.4 kids, and you know your life is sorted. It hasn't worked out that way, for a lot of my generation, unfortunately, hasn't worked out that way. So what we've got is we've got the younger generation coming up and saying, you know what, we've seen our older siblings or our uncle's or aunts go through the system, things are not quite working out. You know, you'll get young people saying they want to be influencers and YouTubers, the same way we used to say we want to be lawyers and doctors. The same way that we study in 1939, 1945, 1963, 1969 is the same way 100 years from now, historians will be looking back at this time between 2019-beyond and saying the world has changed forever. For me, what the pandemic has done is the equivalent of 9/11. I'm sure you remember 9/11, we remember the word before 9/11 and the word after 9/11, there was a market shift, and I believe were at one of those turning points in the world as well. And what we're seeing now in terms of absenteeism, and so on and so forth, are symptoms of something greater that's coming down the road. And I've haven’t even mentioned AI, so there is that as well, I think there's a lot of factors that we can kind of talk about.

20:26:
Sam Powell: I think you're absolutely right, that we need to look at this more on a macro scale, and look at all the factors involved, it's really interesting to hear you start to begin to describe the role of the parents there. Obviously, we originally mentioned schools, but schools are just one stakeholder when it comes to pupil absence. And there are multiple other groups involved. If we look at it through this lens with a school as part of a chain, how can schools engage with other key stakeholders and ensure that absence remains low?

20:48:
Karl Pupé: In my first book the Action Hero Teacher, I actually spoke about this called the Student Triangle. And this is what I learnt. This is actually one of my mentors, when I was learning how to teach. My mentor mentioned this to me. And I remember because I was really frustrated, I was dealing with one particular student, and I was so frustrated, I'm like, I'm putting in all the hours. And at the time, I was working in a primary school as a TA. And I was doing like a lot of speech and language, and this young man had SEN and SEMH and I was like, you know, I get him ready. I set him up every day, he leaves the school day feeling happy. And I feel like I'm making progress. And then the next day is like it starts from the beginning. And because I was fresh to teaching, I was like, what am I doing wrong? And my mentor told me, she said, you're not doing anything wrong. There are three areas of a child's life that we've got to take in consideration. So you've got the person, right, the personality of the particular child, have they got special educational needs? SEMH? So on and so forth. What are they like? Some people like to learn certain things, some people don't, right, so that's one area. The second area is their environment, their environment is everything from their family life, their domestic life, all the way to whether they live in a village, or whether they live in a city, their culture, their ethnicity, all these things are part of the environment. And then there's you that represents the school. All right. Now, already, you are at a disadvantage, if you're going to take it as you know, treat all three areas equally, you're only a third of the influence. But what she said to me, which was powerful, it's not even that way, you're probably only 20% of the influences as a teacher. Anecdotally, the biggest factor in whether a child does well is their environment, their environment is absolutely key. So you can get two children who have got the same academic ability or the same levels. And because of the way that they reared, because of their family, because of their culture and the context they're in, they'll have completely two different outcomes. And schools have got to get better at this. We've got to move from and I think what we've done, a mistake we've made with schooling. And I always say this, that education has not been disrupted, since its inception, it's a very ancient way of doing things, I'm sorry to say that it's a very Edwardian system, I could go on my TARDIS my time machine right now. I could kidnap Montgomery from a school in the 1800s. And say, come to the 21st century, and I'm going to show you modern schooling, and I take him in my TARDIS and I put him in the classroom. If I remove the whiteboard, and I remove the speaker system and technology, he will know exactly what this is. He could perhaps teach, I could probably give him the schemes of work. And he could, he or she or they could go and teach the curriculum. So the way that we teach has not changed fundamentally in over 100 years. And the reason why I say this is that we have very much looked at education in a very narrow strata of grades, letters, numbers, you name it, right? We as educators, have got to become smarter. And what I'd say to teachers in this context is that we've got to work with the parents, we've got to work with the community, it is not enough just to say, and unfortunately, the reason why I say this is that, you know, I train a lot of teachers and they're like, look, my job is just to give them the material and help them to get the grades, it's not my job to, you know, be a social worker or whatnot. And I say, unfortunately, although it's not your job, it is becoming your job. Because we haven't got you know, everything has been cut, all the mental health has been cut, so you're gonna have to deal with it. So I always say, I want you to be a paramedic rather than a surgeon. I'm not saying to be the child psychologist. I'm not saying that you stopped the whole lesson and take the child out, give them cuddles play basketball with them. It's not possible, that's not in your remit. But the same way a good First Aider can help somebody who's in an emergency crisis, is the same way as teachers, we've got to help them. And part of that work now is being able to do, so what I'd say, to answer your question, we have to work with the parents, we have to establish closer relationships with the parents, closer relationships with the community. Because what we don't also understand is that sometimes parents have had that very negative experience of school, and that filters on to their child. More often than not, and I can only say this anecdotally, when I'm dealing with a child that's really challenging, that doesn't want to engage, a school refusal, more often than not, the parent has had a bad experience at school. And you know what, while I know this is because what will happen is a child would get in trouble. They say, Mum, Dad, I'm getting in trouble at school, they say, don't worry about it, I’ll deal with it. And they'll just tell you to eff off or whatever. So you've got to work with the parent, if you don't get the parent or the caregivers on side, or the community on side, you are not going to access that child, or help that child. And again, we can, you can even break it down in cultural levels. Because after especially after what happened with George Floyd and Black Lives Matter, finally, schools are saying, look, we've got a problem. And I've spoken to school saying, look, we're coming from a particular context, these children are coming from a particular context, we've noticed that the behavior and you know, the engagement is low. And now we're realizing that because we're seen as outsiders or because we don't understand what these children are going through, we can't access, we can't engage them, basically. So it's very, very important to summarize what I've just said, we as schools have got to kind of come off our, take off our tweed jackets, take our pipes, and say, look, we've got to educate holistically to the child, rather than just focus on being so focused on academic progress. We've got to be able to communicate with the parents, the caregivers and the community going forward in the future. That's what we've got to do.

26:11:
Sam Powell: I really love that model of the triangle. I think that's a really essential viewpoint for staff to take. It's, it's important for them to realize that they're not Atlas holding up the sky, this burden isn't theirs alone to take, that there's factors outside of their control. That's an essential thing they need to realize both, for their own mental health, but also, to better understand the context of a student and able to help their wellbeing we'll come back to you in just a moment Karl, but for now, we just need to take the time to move on to our final story of the day, which is covering a shake up in the rollout of PE.

26:37:
Alex Wallace: On the 8^th March, Rishi Sunak announced that schools should now deliver two hours of PE per week. Schemes in place at the moment, such as the Run Program, delivered by Active Partnerships, will be developed and extended to offer more places to those who may not engage with sport as much, such as disadvantaged pupils, those with SEND and girls.

26:57:
Sam Powell: Speaking of girls sport, March 8^th saw the celebration of International Women's Day, and the government used this to place the spotlight onto girls sports provision in schools. This is part of a legacy program, which stems back from the Lionesses victory at the Euros in 2022.

27:10:
Alex Wallace: With this in mind, the schools have been told that they must offer equal access to sport for both boys and girls, with an expanded version of the School's Games Mark award being awarded to schools who successfully delivered equal opportunities for both boys and girls.

27:25:
Sam Powell: To help make these changes a reality, 600 million pounds of primary PE and sport premium funding have been greenlit, along with 22 million pounds for the School Games organisers network, a further 57 million pounds have also been put forward to help keep school sports facilities open outside of the normal school day.

27:42:
Alex Wallace: Current understanding is that neither requirement will be statutory, though Ofsted will be asked to check on equal access to sport following a pledge made by Rishi Sunak during the first 2022 Conservative Leadership campaign to ask Ofsted to assess PE in every school.

27:58:
Sam Powell: These changes and their subsequent funding are being welcomed by school leaders as a step in the right direction. However, that doesn't mean that there are not still concerns over the changes in an already crammed curriculum.

28:08:
Alex Wallace: Speaking to Schools Week, Jeff Barton, the General Secretary of ASCL was one such leader welcoming the new PE, that said that there needed to be a reality check, as school timetables were already crammed with a multitude of expectations from the government in all sorts of areas. And it's a constant battle to find time for anything.

28:26:
Sam Powell: Barton followed up by saying that quote, “there is a real need for a comprehensive curriculum review that slims down expectations and gives the right weighting to all of these competing demands.”

28:35:
Alex Wallace: I think this ties on really nicely with what you were saying, Karl, in terms of, we've had this 57 million promise in order to keep school facilities open, providing this holistic education and then attempt to kind of put schooling and it could be an idea to put schooling back at the heart community with increased sports facilities and the money for targeted girls, disadvantaged pupils and pupils with SEND, how can this money be used to encourage pupils with poor attendance back into school?

29:05:
Karl Pupé: Absolutely, doesn't that a really powerful point. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, I believe the 57 million pound came off the back of the Lionesses win last year, which I think is fantastic. I know, the government gets a lot of stick. So you know, you've got to give credit where credit's due. So it's fantastic. Because we all realize the power of sport. Going back to what you're saying, how can this be used to encourage the young people? There's many, many practical ways, one of the things, when I was a NEETs coordinator, and I worked in alternative provision. So for those who are listening, I'm sure everybody's familiar, but just to make sure I cover everybody. Alternative provision is for young people who cannot for whatever reason stay in mainstream schooling, whether it's down to their behavior or their particular needs. And we always understood when we worked on alternative provision to educate to the child holistically. It's not just about the grades. We obviously wanted them to get some form of qualifications, but we wanted to engage them in a different way, which was not like school because of the trauma they've had around school. So if you imagine you have a young person who's been thrown out of two schools, they come into your space. And they've been told that basically, they're more or less being put in the bin. So they're going to be very hostile when they first come in, it's almost like I can't be bothered, or I can't deal with you, because all the other teachers and institutions I've been in, are gonna treat me badly. So one of the things I had to do was design the schemes work. Well, obviously, the schemes are work design, and I made sure we put things that touched on the different forms of intelligence. So there's a theory by a guy called Howard Gardner. And it's called multiple intelligence theory, which basically said that our idea of intelligence is based on a very narrow field, which is academic intelligence or analytical intelligence. So math, science, you know, reasoning, but there's different types of intelligence. So if you look at someone like Lionel Messi, if you gave him a geography GCSE paper, I don't know, what grade he will get, you know he probably could get a great grade in it, but he might not. But does that mean he's not a genius at what he does? Howard Gardner would say that he's got kinesthetic intelligence, intelligence, bodily kinesthetic intelligence, which is the ability to move his body in a way that helps him in his environment, which is football or somebody like Tyson fury. So it's very much when we were doing it was very much like, Okay, let's try and build out the curriculum, and put as many things that we could touchstones as many different types of things in there. So we can try and find that person's unique talent. So whether it was music, so we had a lot of we got funding from the government, so national lottery for music studio, film, art, that type of thing. And what we found was that these young people who were very disengaged in learning, once they found their thing, whether it was music, a lot of them were musicians, or aspiring musicians, a lot of them wanted to do sports, a lot of them wanted to do things with their hands, plumbing, being an electrician, their behavior started to get better, and they started to engage better as well, because now they felt that the learning was geared towards them. Now I understand with the constraints on our curriculum, we're not allowed, you know, because we have to teach to the national curriculum. We're not allowed to do that. But this is where I feel like this particular initiative can work, because now we're saying, okay, you don't like school. You don't like you know your Maths and English, you have to get that but we've got this activity, perhaps after school or during break, where you can go and you know, learn it here sports. So you know, you can go and learn, you've got a football coach here, a boxing coach here. But what, what I felt with a lot of these provisions, I used to call it the Trojan horses, because we can't say all of these kids are going to be footballers, or boxers, or basketball players. But through sport, they can learn things like teamwork, they can learn things like cooperation, good sportsmanship, they can learn things like I don't know, being a good team player, how to talk to people, so on and so forth. And I think that that is a great gateway to try and especially if you're dealing with a lot of disadvantaged learners, or learners who disengage with school, I think is a great gateway to try and integrate them back into mainstream schooling. So I'm all for it.

32:57:
Sam Powell: Right, well, Karl, we know that you're a busy man. Unfortunately, that's all the time we've got with you today. It's been really interesting to get to chat to you. I know we've both really enjoyed it. And hopefully the audience has to. Have you got anything you'd like to say to them. Just before you go.

33:09:
Karl Pupé: Yeah you'll see me at the conference, I'll be talking about this at SEND. So thank you for listening, please go and check out the Action Hero Teacher if you get the chance to, but like what I was saying I do lots of blogs and different stuff. So if you go to actionheroteacher.com, I am over there. On Instagram and Tiktok, just look up Action Hero Teacher and you'll find me in some way, shape or form.

33:28:
Alex Wallace: While we may not have our guests with us, we still have time for a bit more content to cover yet. And this was a follow up from a main story that we had from last month. And a look ahead to the future of assessment.

33:39:
Sam Powell: You may remember that last month we sat down with Evelyn Forde, the president of ASCL, to discuss the wave of NEU strikes that were taking place.

33:45:
Alex Wallace: Well, there certainly have been some updates here. NEU strikes continued for two days this month, on 15th and the 16th. What followed was a period of intensive talks between the government and the major education unions. This culminated in a government offer of a 1000 pounds extra cash payment this year, and a 4.3% pay rise for most staff next year. The NEU have called for its members to reject the offer, with their online poll closing on Sunday, the second of April. Speaking with the BBC, Kevin Courtney, the NEU’s General Secretary said that his union was unhappy with the offer and believed it was not fully funded in schools. And that means that the majority of schools would have to make their own cuts in order to find it. This certainly isn't the last we'll be hearing on this story. So stay with us for future updates.

34:37:
Sam Powell: Speaking of the future, let's talk about AI. It seems that you can't go a day without hearing chat GPT somewhere nowadays, even my dad went to talk to me about it the other day and he is not an technologically inclined, let me tell you. There's no doubt that AI is going to play an increasingly large role in our lives. I mean, I imagine it will take over running this podcast from us at some point. Given the technological and I guess social phenomenon that Chat GPT is at the moment, it's not surprising that discussions around it would creep its way into the education space at some point.

35:05:
Alex Wallace: Talking at the ASCL Leaders Conference, Dr. Jo Saxton, Ofqual’s Chief Regulator said that she would want students to conduct coursework under exam conditions if she was a school leader. So that pupils would be unable to cheat using chat GPT. Adding that, I wouldn't be asking for pieces of coursework or the essays that contribute to the grades we've done at home or in school holidays. I'd be doing them in invigilated conditions in my centre.

35:34:
Sam Powell: It's important that we stress that while speaking, Dr. Saxon was simply sharing her thoughts and this is not yet official policy or any kind of statutory requirement. However, it could be seen as a sign of things to come in the future. Now that we know that these AI programs are capable of writing complex answers, we may have unwittingly opened Pandora's box and assessment will need to change accordingly.

35:51:
Alex Wallace: Saxton also reiterated a story that we had previously covered in the podcast before, that in 2023 grades will be lower compared to the quality assured grades of the previous few years as they returned to a pre pandemic grading and standards.

36:06:
Sam Powell: Dr. Saxton stressed that quote, “it doesn't mean something's gone wrong. It's part of our national move back towards pre pandemic normality.” Well, that's all the time we have for this month. But before we go, you know how this goes by now. Time to talk about the Schools & Academies Show. Alex take it away.

36:24:
Alex Wallace: The Schools and Academies Show is coming back to London May 17th to the ExCeL Exhibition Center. Our guests today, Sarah and Karl will be spoke speaking there in the SEND Theatre.

36:35:
Sam Powell: There'll be many other fantastic speakers there as well, including the multi-time Olympic gold medalist Sir Mo Farah , who will be sitting down live for an interview with John Severs, talking about his humble beginnings and the role of his school and teachers in his journey to the podium.

36:47:
Alex Wallace: Registration is now open and a link to sign up will be in the description. So make sure you secure your place at the show today and we look forward to seeing you there.

36:54:
Sam Powell: Well, I guess that's all from us then. Until next month, it's goodbye for me.

36:59:
Alex Wallace: And that's it goodbye from me. See you next month.

37:11:
Sam Powell: This episode was produced and edited by Alessandro Bilotta, Sam Powell and Alex Wallace.

37:24:
Sam Powell: So we've covered a lot today and as a result, we don't have anything extra to throw in for you here. Instead, we'd like to use this time to say thank you to someone who's been a key player in the podcast, but that you don't ever really hear from that person is Alessandro Bilotta.

37:37:
Alex Wallace: Alessandro has been instrumental in the production of this podcast and the Schools and Academies Show, and we wouldn't be here today without him.

37:44:
Sam Powell: This will be the last episode with Ale's involvement because he's leaving GovNet to take on new challenges.

37:48:
Sam Powell: By the time this podcast goes out, Alessandro will have already left, but we hope you're listening. And we would just like to say a huge thank you Ale for your insight, your support and your patience, and we wish you all the best in your new position.