Ofsted's new Chief Inspector, Sir Martyn Oliver joined the Main Stage for an exclusive interview at the SAASHOW London on 1st May 2024, to discuss Ofsted's 'Big Listen' campaign, how to make your voice hear at Ofsted and how to work together to ensure holistic support for disadvantaged children in the sector.
The discussion was focused on the following points:
- Ofsted's inspections and accountability, with a focus on the Chief Inspector's powers and reforms
- Ofsted's independence, funding, and impact on education
- Single word judgements and contextual differentiation for vulnerable children
- Ofsted reform and how to balance standards with accountability
You can watch the discussion between Sir Martyn Oliver and Jon Severs down below for free!
Transcript
Jon Severs 0:01
Good morning everyone. Thank you to Mr Martyn Oliver for joining us today to talk about Ofsted. What we're going to try and do in this session is delve into the "Big Listen", delve into Ofsted, what are the perceived challenges and how are they going to be tackled? What Martyn's going to do is then go to the stand afterwards to take questions. So we're not going to do Q&A in this session, but Martyn will be on the stand afterwards to do a Q&A. So first question, and Martyn has warned me that this answer might be slightly technical. What people want to know is we're doing the "Big Listen", and what is in your power to change as the Chief Inspector? What can you do alone, and what do we need a government initiative or policy to change?
Sir Martyn Oliver 0:52
Thanks for having me here, and it's good to talk to everyone. So let's start! The powers that Ofsted have originate from the Education and then the Education and Inspection Act, and the first one of those is 2005 and the second one is in 2006. That sets out in law the power of Ofsted, and it invests quite a lot of that power in the Chief Inspector, which flows through the Chief Inspector to the rest of Ofsted. Now alongside that, you then have the ministers. So I'm not a democratically elected person. I'm appointed by the Crown, a crown appointment, but the the elected ministers, they set government policy, and then Ofsted works to that government policy within the powers of the law from 2005/06. So we're making changes now. I came in January to make reform, and I'm on a reform journey. I've only just started. I've done a lot. There's a lot more to come, and then there's an awful lot more that's going to come in the future. But as we go through that, some of these really big things need to happen, like an Act of Parliament to update the legislation, ministerial decisions, all of that needs to happen. It's really complex, but we're just going to work through it slowly. People might want me to go faster, but I'll go as fast as I can whilst staying within the law.
Jon Severs 2:09
So with the Big Listen, obviously a huge array of different items in there. Let's say 40% of it say this is a request for change. Realistically, does that 40% require an Act of Parliament? Or are there things that Ofsted you can say "No. As Chief Inspector, I want to make sure that every school has a phase relevant Inspector, I want to make sure that we're consistent. We come back to a RI school or within a given time frame." Can you do that stuff yourself?
Sir Martyn Oliver 2:43
Yeah, quite a lot of that. So that's why we really structured it really carefully. And again, it wasn't just to the 22,000 schools and everyone in the room here, but it's to the 97,000 institutions that we inspect and regulate. So for example, like 67,000 plus our early years settings, and then the colleges and prisons and everything else that we inspect and regulate. So we separated it out into reporting, inspection, impact and culture. So how we report, well, that's pretty much an Ofsted's gift, the culture that's in ofsted's gift. So we could think about the inspection process, how we go about doing that inspection that's in our gift. There are then just those elements of like time frame, the judgment. They are acts of legislation which are ministerial.
Jon Severs 3:32
You've spoken in the past about the fact that the perception of Ofsted can be wrapped up in the consequences of an Ofsted visit, not necessarily the inspection itself. Do you want to talk a bit more about how you see the divide between the inspection process and the accountability process?
Sir Martyn Oliver 3:50
Well, I'm really clear. My job is to think about how the inspection happens and to think about the reforms and the changes. I'm listening to the sector. I've got to go out on the stand from here and listen. I was on radio five live last week. I was talking to anyone in the NASUWT last night. I'm constantly out all the time doing events like that, listening. Now, you know, I can hear all of these things, but I have to then put that into that sense of like, what is ofsted's gift? You know, I'm 30 nearly years as many experienced people in the room of being in education, and I can remember a time before the accountability system was there, when Ofsted would put a school, perhaps, into a category. And all that would happen. Now we'll turn up, do monitoring visits and then do a graded inspection again. But in this case, the regulators, the Department for Education uses the Ofsted judgment to undertake intervention at that point. So when people talk about the Ofsted inspection, what I need to be really clear about is what's in my gift, and what can I change? What it then follows from the accountability, which is not my gift, that's the Department of Education, that's the minister's gift to deal with that. And so trying to separate those two out, and then not, because it is all part of the accountability structure, but I need to focus on my job and deliver the changes that people are telling me that they want.
Jon Severs 3:50
Do you think when you were a CEO of a big, successful Multi Academy Trust that that distinction mattered to you? Do you think people understand that, or should understand that?
Sir Martyn Oliver 5:32
Well, I think, I think it does matter. I mean, I think it will. Many of the conversations I have had with people are trying to explain that whilst I'm a crown appointed person as all HMIs are, and where, actually, every single person who works roster is bound by the Civil Service Code. And that code states, really clearly, your job is to deliver for government. And the beauty of that is, is we deliver for the government today, and if the government changes, changes people, changes party, then we immediately start delivering for that government, and that's the strength of the civil service when it's at its absolute best. But should people know these things like, you know, today's a momentous day I'm told where more than 50% of schools have academies, and how many of those have come across as converters, and how many are sponsored? And if they're sponsored, that's quite often on the back of an Ofsted judgment. So clearly, again, that's the accountability system kicking in on the back of something that we've done.
Jon Severs 6:29
It's a tricky time, because if so much is dependent on government, obviously we've got an unspecified time left before a general election. Obviously you're doing a "Big Listen". Does that essentially become the document you take to whoever wins that election and say, "This is what the sector is telling us about the decisions you might want to consider around Ofsted".
Sir Martyn Oliver 6:51
Yes, we're a non ministerial department, and we have a level of independence. What is that independence? The independence means that we inspect without fear or favor. We can't be politically persuaded to come up with a judgment, because that's not what we do. We inspect against a framework. The framework is published, consorted on, then implemented within the act of law. So that's one level of independence. The other is that we can speak without fear or favor. Now I spoke to all the Chief Inspectors who are still alive, who, before I took up the post. Sir David Bell, I have got a great deal of admiration for Sir David Bell. He said to me, Ofsted's independence is rooted in it's evidence that it finds. So not me saying "this is what I think". That's no use, just as it isn't with me coming in with all of my experiences saying, "This is what I think, this is what 97,000 sectors should now do because I think something". I'm much more interested in saying, what's the evidence from the "Big Listen"? What's the evidence from our inspections? What's the evidence from our thematic reports? What have we seen? What have we heard? And then presenting that back without fear or favor, and that's why, not just alongside the questions we created, what 30 odd free text boxes for people to write down whatever they feel like.
Jon Severs 6:51
When you're presenting that evidence - obviously, Ofsted is an incredibly emotional thing for leaders. And then on the other side, you've publicly said, you know, that there's an underfunding element to Ofsted, or at least Ofsted hasn't been funded in real terms to account for the size of the organization. Now, when you're presenting those findings to a future government, are you filtering out the emotion? Are you filtering out the "this is a problem, but, you know, it's a problem of underfunding, not necessarily a problem of the idea or the concept". How is that evidence based going to be presented to the next government?
Sir Martyn Oliver 8:52
We've been at since 2005, our remit has grown and grown and grown. But since 2009/10, our funding has dropped in real terms by 29%. That clearly has an impact. The first thing I had to do in January when I walked into the job is make a 10% saving for the financial year budget that we set within government. But let's just be clear, I can remember in December, running 42 schools. You know, it's challenging in the sector. I don't think Ofsted should be at the front of the line for the additional funding, but I think it's a part of the system. So when I replied to the education select committee in full, I said, "for example, if you want HMI led inspections and an additional Ofsted inspector on the team, then that Ofsted inspector, I'll do my best then to grow that team, to make sure that a primary gets a primary, a special school gets a special school and try to match up all of those things that would cost me like 8.4 million pounds that one decision, and I've currently got an overspend in the budget of 1.2 million". So that simply isn't there. But I'm really clear. What I won't do is allow Ofsted to carry on inspecting in the future in the way it does now, even if I don't get more money, I'll change the way we inspect to allow that inspection process to be as empathetic, courteous and professional as I think it needs to be, to answer what I'm hearing from the sector.
Jon Severs 10:15
So you took a principal stand at the Academy trust, and you've obviously got an overview of Ofsted, that it needs reform, and that you believe that it should be responsive to the sector. If you don't get the funding or the remit you need from a future government, is your remit then, to make the best of the situation you've got for the sector? Or is there a point where you take a principled stand?
Sir Martyn Oliver 10:43
Well, they can take a principled stand, but my principle stand would be delivering against the legislation and then arguing for change in legislation. So for example, if you look at the time frame in which we inspect that's set out in law, looking at the framework being a common inspection framework that's set out in law. So if you wanted to change or have risk based inspections, or change the length of time between inspections, some of those things, I can push the envelope of the law as it stands. Some of them will be saying there's a legislative wish list, and I'm already starting to build one. This is the legislation, from what I'm hearing, that we think would need to happen to deliver the reforms people made. And let's just be clear, I only came because I loved my job as a head. It's the best job in the world working in education, I only came to be the chief inspector to make reform. And do I think it needs reform? Yes, I do, but that's because 2024 isn't 2019. Things are very different now in the sectors, the pressures, recruitment, retention, workload, attendance, behavior, finance challenges, there's a moment when, as the inspector, our vision is to raise standards and improve lives. And I need to be really clear that when we're going out there, that we are raising standards and improving lives. And if you overinspect, overregulate, you may tip on that balance and suddenly find you're not doing that. And I think 2024 is a challenging moment to work in this great profession, and it is a great job, and I need to make sure officers got high standards for every child everywhere in the country, reporting to parents. That's our job. Report to parents, report to parliament, but not break the system. So it's that balance. I think it was you that wrote, "my job is like walking on a tightrope. It's actually a frail piece of string". And it is because also, people are impatient for change. I get it, but there's a general election coming. So change, workload, general election, change workload, then the system's in permanent revolution. And I think we're looking for an evolution, not constant revolution. So again, I'm trying to balance all of those things, but I'm not looking for sympathy. I'm just saying this is really complicated. It's really serious work, and I've got to get it right, because if I get it wrong, that's millions of children, millions of staff, 97,000 institutions that be impacted upon it. It takes, unfortunately, time.
Jon Severs 13:09
It's interesting about the time aspect, because obviously, if you feel it needs reform, and you feel that, you know, we haven't got exactly the right system we need, there's a period of time now where we have an ill fitting Ofsted system inspecting schools. But obviously your argument is that you can't mean that you change that for legislative reasons. But also, there's an idea of not rushing into something too quickly.
Sir Martyn Oliver 13:33
Well, let's be clear, there are challenges. Ill fitting, I think, is probably too harsh a level of criticism, because it's hard. People see some of the stories, but I see them all, and I just had a text whilst I was sitting outside from someone who's working (I won't say where) in one of the most challenging schools in the country, in a really difficult context. And he just was inspected. I know him, and he just sent me a text saying, "Just had an inspection. He won't tell me what the grade is, and I won't ask him. I could look but I won't." And he said, you know, it was carried out professionally, with courtesy, empathetically, with respect. But you know, if one isn't, one is one too many, and so driving that consistency is a challenge for me, and one that the team are really embracing, and all the challenges that mental health, training, the pause and inspections, the National help desk just constantly new complaints, policy, some of these are changes I've made. Now I've got lots more I'm going to talk about on this Saturday when I go to the NEHT conference in Wales. I'll talk about some of those. I'll then talk to you about some of those things for September that I can do, short of legislative change. And again, it's really important, because anything significant must be consulted on. There can't be a scenario where somebody's inspected in July, and then I change it for September, that on the end, on the back of the "big listen", and then it's a different inspection. Because, quite rightly, that person would say, "Well, hold on a minute. If I was inspected not in September, but in July or the way round, it's sort of in a different outcome." This is a really serious thing that has to happen and be consorted on slowly and delivered properly through the conversations I have with trade unions and people like yourself.
Jon Severs 13:33
Do you think then, when the reform happens - giving your example, if someone's inspected just before those reforms occur - is that inspection judgment then caveated until they're inspected under a new system?
Sir Martyn Oliver 15:19
Yeah, I think it is, and it was right now. So for example, the outstanding schools that have been exempt for all this time. Yeah, there's that caveat that this is a different framework, as it is for everybody else. If you're inspected under CIF, the common inspection framework, and now it's the EIF, the education inspection framework, they are different frameworks. One judgment doesn't carry forward to the other. But that's really difficult. You know, I had every grade of school - outstanding, good requires improvement and inadequate. And if you've got one of those outstanding schools, like where I was last, the head teacher, it's 12/13 years since it was inspected, then suddenly, that's an awful lot of pressure. And I get that. That's part of perhaps the things that we're hearing about, the grade and the judgment.
Jon Severs 16:23
On that, there was a very excitable Sunday where the Times suggested that the single word judgments were going to disappear. I mean, that is something that is not in your remit.
Sir Martyn Oliver 16:35
It's a perfect example. I mean, a perfect example because out came the ministers and the DfE and said, "No, not Ofsted. We were nowhere in that conversation." To demonstrate to you that's where that power lies. It is a ministerial decision, it really is, and it's an act of law to which they work to.
Jon Severs 16:56
And your personal view on single word judgments?
Sir Martyn Oliver 16:59
My personal view is this, I'm a civil servant, and I worked at the government of the day. I told you, that's the complex answer. Sensible leaders, they understand there are ways of influencing decisions. Sometimes you talk, sometimes you shout, sometimes you influence, and sometimes you gather slowly. But people have got to say and you present information back in an evidential way. There are many more ways than one to make changes.
Jon Severs 17:28
And I don't want to pre-decide what the outcome of the "big listen" will be, but I imagine a big theme in it will be the need for contextual inspection. I.E., this school is in a sky high need for home support workers. We're dealing with 80% of our resource going into mental health and behavior. Is it possible to have inspection that's contextually differential, and is it possible for that to then be consistent?
Sir Martyn Oliver 17:59
Well, that's the only reason I came to take the job. My number one priority is the most disadvantaged and resource vulnerable children in the country. And I'm really clear, if you get it right for the most vulnerable children, you'll get it right for everyone. So how do you do that? There is an element where Ofsted says "provision isn't good enough where then things happen, whether that's intervention, whether it's money, things flow into the system". But if Ofsted says everything is great everywhere, that could equally be used as a reason to do no change, no more investment. Why would you invest in a system which is working, working perfectly well when other public service areas, like the health are calling out for money. So there is a really hard moment there. It doesn't, it won't feel like it to the people being inspected, but in the state of the nation, that bit's got to be really quite carefully done. But of all the questions we ask, the one question that I'm really interested in is, how do I hold the school to account in Teesside compared to a school where perhaps there might be selective education going on, and it's an entirely different circumstance. I mean I sponsored the school really close to where I live, in North Yorkshire, just 20 odd miles up Middlesbrough, the cheapest housing in England. Totally different context. One school would have walked past 50% basics at English and maths by the end of year nine. The other wouldn't get there if I spent a fortune on it, and through every esource at that. The people in that school in Middlesbrough were working just as hard, if not harder, than the school in North Yorkshire. So how do you do that? How do you make that judgment and then not condemn the children in Teesside to say, "Well, bad luck where you were born". It's a really interesting question, and I'm focusing hard on that, just as I am also the fact that we we try to inspect not just the 22,000 schools, and say, "This is what it's like to be a child in this primary or this secondary, but what's it like to be a child who lives in that area? What's it like to be a child in Teesside who might be looked after, goes into a children's home, has an education, health care plan, goes into alternative provision, goes to further education than college". There's only one organization the whole of England that's there 365, days a year, 24/7, not just inspecting, but often making care interventions against that child's life. That's Ofsted. And what we've never done since 1992 is join up all of those jigsaw pieces to make that puzzle a big picture. And I'm determined to do that.
Jon Severs 20:40
Do you worry that the expectation, though, of the "big listen" and the sort of things you're saying now, people are going to expect change too quickly, and perhaps too much. What is a reasonable outcome here for people to expect? Because, by your own admission, your ability to change the system is hamstrung by government, and we don't know what that government's going to look like or what sort of budgets they're going to have. How does expectations management work for Ofsted in the next two years?
Sir Martyn Oliver 21:12
I only ever focused on the fact that in my old job, in this job, deal with the challenges right in front of you, the changes you can make, and I would urge people to work in that same way and then try and influence ministerially, try and influence your MPs if you've got strong views, just as much as telling us, and we'll present those. Because remember, this is a government consultation. This isn't a consultation of a survey. This is a government consultation that the bar I have to pass when presenting the answers to the big listen is really high. There's a standard that I have to work to in how we present this in September, or as soon as I've been able to analyze it. But we're hearing a lot. I'm fairly sure this will be what, well almost certainly be, the biggest consultation exercise ever undertaken by Ofsted.
Jon Severs 22:01
Is that intimidating for you to be in charge of that and have to deliberate it?
Sir Martyn Oliver 22:06
It's like a manifesto for me and the changes that I think the system wants, I nearly said the changes I think need to be made, which I'm trying so hard not to do.
Jon Severs 22:19
Back to that emotional point, that Ofsted, particularly in the wake of what happened during the pandemic and what happened with Ruth Perry, it's an intensely emotional relationship between Ofsted and the sector. How are you going to navigate that, not just about trust, but about respect between the inspection process and the schools?
Sir Martyn Oliver 22:43
It's open and transparent. Put myself in situations like this. Talk to people go out and listen, stand on the stand in a few minutes, and talk to people who come up to tell me whatever it is that they want me to hear. Well, we're on a stage trying to break the fourth wall. And one of the things that's really interesting, I also said when I was going for my pre-appointment hearings. I wanted Ofsted to be of the system, by the system, for children and parents. Now the vast majority of our workforce are serving practitioners. They're heads, Deputy heads, college principals who are out there working in the sector. And the more I can lean into that, I would like it to be huge in that number, much, much, much bigger than it is now, and it's already really quite big. In some ways, it's the professional inspectorate, which is a peer review system. People from the system are inspecting each other against the common inspection framework, with all of the consistency and training that you can provide across our nation. I think that there's got to be something in there.
Jon Severs 23:54
Does that put you in a position sometimes, as a defender of the sector, like the sort of inspection system you're describing is a peer led framework where there is a common goal, but also that almost puts Ofsted in a spokesperson role for the challenges you're seeing to say, "look, 20% of schools here are in deficit because of mental health, social care problem, not through education".
Sir Martyn Oliver 24:22
And we do that regularly. We haven't done it as much in the last few months, because we've been focused very much on introspection, on ourselves. But we do put reports out. Recently, we put one out on domestic violence. You know, we've got reports that are coming down the line, which are really thematic, looking at all the things that we've heard, all the things that we've seen, sometimes they come from additional inspections where we try to understand these areas. We've just done one on care leavers, going into supported accommodation, something we're really bothered about. We think that the children until they're 18/16, some of them go into accommodation. Some of that accommodation is good. Some of it is, trust me, I've seen the videos, really not good, and they would upset everyone in this room if you saw some of the things that that we see. Reporting on those without fear or favor. And again, that's what the sector needs, it wants Ofsted to do that work, because that's when we can represent what we find, which is, as I said, often the cut what it is the catalyst for change, many times.
Jon Severs 25:30
And I'm intrigued about the findings of the "the big listen", because one of the glorious things about education is that diversity of opinion. Yeah, I talked about the walking along the fray rope before, but I don't know how you keep everyone happy, like there are calls for Ofsted to be scrapped. There are calls for Ofsted to be reformed in myriad ways, and there are calls from certain schools who just want Ofsted to stay as it is so. So how do you become representative of the sector? Do you have to accommodate those views somehow, or do you have to, at some point, make a decision? Or does government have to make that decision?
Sir Martyn Oliver 26:04
Well, that would be where ministers, elected politicians get elected on the manifestos that they create. And then it's that change in law you're trying your best to find your way through it. That's fair. And even if people think, well, it's not what I wanted. Is it fair? Does it feel fair? Has this been done with me or done to me? Has it recognized the context and the challenges which I work and operate? I think they're the key questions.
Jon Severs 26:33
And you also spoke about the unintended consequences of reform. And I think what happened between Michael Wilshire, Amanda Spielman for example, was that it flipped which schools were up and which were down in terms of inspection. And then, as you said, accountability follows. So we can't really hide away from accountability. But as a former trust CEO who has been through those undulations, how do you guard against a school suddenly finding that all the things that were good are suddenly not good, and then the effect of that on the system of change or be re-brokered? The consequences of an Ofsted inspection are so acute that each little tweak you make, maybe you prioritize data a little bit more, or maybe you play with curriculum a little bit more, suddenly you're changing the sector, and that seems dangerous.
Sir Martyn Oliver 27:28
Let's just be clear, Ofsted doesn't deliver. Ofsted inspection regulates, these good people deliver. And I'm quite clear about that. It's not Ofsted's job to say "this is exactly how you should work". Our job is to inspect and to regulate against the law. So there are some things that we have to all do. For example, in safeguarding, you must obey to children, keeping children safe in education quite rightly, and we inspect against those but we need to stay in our lane and say, "well, leaders, you understand your context. How is it you're operating your school? Have we got that balance right in 2024? Probably not, and that's probably one of the things that has to be reformed". I think that's important. But so does raising standards. One of the things I hear from the sector is most people say to me, they want accountability. In fact, everyone who's got a teaching qualification will recognize if you're a teacher, I think it's point two of your teacher standard says you are accountable. It's your job description. You are accountable. Of course, we are. But how do we do that? Make sure that people are delivering for their local communities, really important and trying to get what do we mean by inclusion? I heard a lovely definition about that the other day, which I think really speaks to me. "Schools should provide for their local children, not the local children providing for the needs of their school."
Jon Severs 28:50
And I mean, there's been talk on that point, hasn't there about how you get a system that is truly inclusive, and does that mean your school should have a representative cohort of children with SEND that reflects your local environment? And I know from talking to people at the DfE, they're very wary of that. Could you explain a little bit more why?
Sir Martyn Oliver 29:13
Yeah, I'm really concerned about that. I'm really concerned about schools that no one wants, as they used to be called, because I used to try and sponsor them. In fact, they were the schools that I always used to sponsor. And that's just ridiculous. There are children in those schools. They need great leaders. They need great people. There shouldn't be a system where they're afraid to take on those schools because of anything to do with Ofsted. What? That's just nonsense. The most vulnerable children need the best leaders and the best teachers. So again, one of the reasons why I came to the job is, how do I focus on that? And then people be sitting there probably thinking, well, there's the tension, because it's not like that right now. That's because those changes, those really complex things, have all got to be worked through. I've got to go through a series of steps and processes and get this really complicated work right.
Jon Severs 30:06
Do you think that Ofsted done enough to call out very low SEND cohorts in and where it looks odd, where you have a school down the road with 30% SEND and one school with 1.5% SEND, there's a there's clearly something going on there?
Sir Martyn oliver 30:21
Yeah, and it's just not that easy. I would say, on the face of it, yeah, I could agree with you. But then I would say, "Well, what happens if, for example, the way that the SENCO was working in one school was more open and transparent to the community and parents happened to choose that school for that reason". Does it mean that the other school had got a SENDCO who's trying, but wasn't as able to communicate, or the leaders of the school didn't communicate as well? So suddenly, well, you know, that school says, "Well, hold on a minute. We've educated everyone who who got a place here, but this other school says, Well, we're getting all of yours". That's a really complex set, but I think again, that's one of the things I want to hear about and ask these questions. How do you do that? I don't think a school should be a good school if it is off rolling. I think a school that off role should be inadequate if you are finding ways to manipulate your admissions code. We often hear, but finding the evidence of it where people say, "Oh, don't come to my school. They're much better down the road with children with special educational needs. What is that about? Your local school for local children, meeting the needs of local children, not local children meeting the needs of the school. But again, I understand the pressures people are under with the accountability system that might drive these unintended consequences. The system's in too much fragility right now to have any unintended consequences from deaf decisions that I make, which is why I'm going to do it carefully, slowly, openly, transparently, talk to people, and then I'll go into full consultation on the back of the changes that ministers want, people want, changes that bring my gift, bring it all together.
Jon Severs 30:21
On that point of admissions. Can Ofsted really get under the skin of...
Sir Martyn Oliver 32:12
That's a different regulator. That's the ombudsman.
Jon Severs 32:25
So you, as an inspection, you were talking about off rolling and you know, the school down the road is better, but a lot of that is unseen. So how does Ofsted judge a school? Do you rely on the other regulator to give that information, or is there a way of inspecting that says this cohort doesn't feel right?
Sir Martyn Oliver 32:43
You bring it all together. So there are 154 local authorities in England, and I've met now, just in last three months alone, personally, I've met way more than a third of all the directors of children's services. I've made a real effort to get to all of them and talking to them about having that local intelligence, that local knowledge. They know, because they're the recipient of the child who gets moved out of school, or the child who goes electively home educated, or the child missing education. So there's something there about bringing all of that data together proactively, not reactively, to an inspection. Too often we hear that we've gone in inspected, and then people say, "Oh, why did you do that? Because we know this happened". Well, too late. We needed to know it beforehand. So we've got to, just got to join all those dots up and say again, Barnsley, what's it like to be a child in Barnsley, who's born, goes into an early years system, into early years childminders, nurseries, goes through into primary secondary, into the colleges. What's that journey like for that parent? As much as it is, what's the quality of that early years, what's the quality of that primary? Both pieces have to be done. And I'm definitely sure, since 1992 we've never done that. And again, I think back to the most difficult schools in England, the worst performing schools in England, worst attaining, worst performing, worst behavior, the ones I sponsored, no matter how well we did, and there's an awful lot you can do as a school leader, it required all of those sectors to come together to make a real difference for those children lives. Otherwise, you can make it better, but always in isolation to everything else. And again, because we inspect and regulate all of them, that's where we've got to bring it together. That's the big job. That's the that's going to be the Nirvana, if I get that bit right every five years. That's my aim. But there's also changes. So whilst people are seeing some little changes, some big changes that I've made since January and the ones that I'll make for this September within all those constraints that I have. Well, also, I've got an excellent top team at Ofsted, and they're all working really proactively with me to change the way Ofsted works internally. We're developing different systems, different ways of quality assuring our work, different ways of checking for levels of consistency. So we're just we're performing Ofsted to provide that level of consistency. And that's something that I used to do an awful lot in my last organization, was finding that change management and getting consistency across these different schools. And that's the experience and skill set I'm trying to bring to Ofsted now, across the whole of England and across eight regions, eight regions, but one Ofsted.
And I guess my last question is, at the end of your tenure in five years, if it's not extended, like a mahanda, what would you like people to say about Ofsted at that point? Is fairness your aim? Would you like the sector to believe Ofsted was fair? Or would you use a different word?
Sir Martyn Oliver 35:59
My priorities are, and it'd be to answer these questions, that we've made a difference, and Ofsted has been a part of helping these great people make a difference to the most vulnerable, most under resourced children. That's my absolute number one priority, no matter what I hear, that Ofsted is consistent in its professional, courteous, empathetic and respectful inspections and regulation and that we are working to the future. We are responding to the needs and the challenges that the sector's responding to.
Jon Severs 36:30
Thank you, Martyn. Martyn's going to go over to his stand, Ofsted stand and will take questions from there. A big thank you to Martyn.
