Podcast | Season 3 | Episode 5: Compulsory Maths up to 18, Strike Action on the Horizon, and Pupil Premium Uplift

Season 3 | Episode 5: Compulsory Maths up to 18, Strike Action on the Horizon, and Pupil Premium Uplift

In this new episode of the Schools & Academies Show  Podcast, we give you a roundup of all the education news from the month of January, bringing you the latest headlines from the start of the year.  

This month, we are joined by the Chief Executive Officer of the Education Endowment Foundation, Professor Becky Francis CBE, who will be sharing her expert insight on the latest educational developments.  

Join the conversation and let us know your thoughts by tweeting us @SAA_Show. 

Transcript

0:02:
Alex Wallace:

Calls for compulsory maths up to the age of 18, teacher strike action is on the horizon and Pupil Premium sees an uplift.

0:19:
Alex Wallace:
Hello everyone and welcome back to the first episode of the Schools & Academies Show Podcast, the first of 2023.

0:27:
Sam Powell:
After a short break for the holidays, we're back. I'd ask if you missed us, but I mean, come on. Of course you did. Alex, how was your Christmas and New Year's? Do you have any resolutions? Oh, perfect. Cheers. Thanks, Alex. Hopefully you'll have great holidays too. And thanks again for joining us as we take you through all the biggest news from January. We hope you enjoy!

1:09:
Alex Wallace:
Well, it's officially the New Year. Whilst January may be a quieter time for your social calendar, it definitely isn't in the education sector.

1:20:
Sam Powell:
We kick the year off with some potential ground-breaking policy announcements right from the very top but discussing the idea of compulsory maths. Rishi Sunak has stated that when a new parliament is formed in 2024, it is his ambition that all school pupils will study in his own words, “some form of maths” right up until the age of 18.

1:34:
Alex Wallace:
According to a number 10 Downing Street press release, around 8 million adults in Britain have the numeracy skills of a primary school child. And in the Times Education Commission report, it was highlighted that 35% of employers have a basic skills (literacy and numeracy) shortage within their organization. Further to that 75% of companies say they have to give extra training in basic skills.

1:57:
Sam Powell: In his first speech of 2023, the Prime Minister explained that maths was going to be an essential skill as jobs become more and more analytical. He also stressed that providing the highest possible standard of education was very personal for him, calling it the single most important reason why he came into politics.

2:11:
Alex Wallace: Compulsory maths to the age of 18 isn't actually a novel concept, the majority of OECD countries including France, Germany, Japan, and the US, all require some level of maths study up to the age of 18. Whereas in the UK, only around half of 16 to 19 year olds study any maths at all.

2:29:
Sam Powell: Reception to Sunak’s pledge has generally been mixed. I think it's fair to say. However, one aspect that many are critical of is just how all this ambition is going to be implemented into schools. And if it's even possible with the current infrastructure.

2:42:
Alex Wallace: Speaking to Schools Week, Jack Worth the NFER’s Schools Workforce Leader, said it was not clear how the government intended to meet the current targets, let alone how the additional teachers required would be attracted to the profession and retained.

2:56:
Sam Powell: In a similar interview again, with Schools Week, Jeff Barton, the General Secretary of ASCL, stressed the importance of building strong evidence before making any significant changes for future generations in education. Like extending Maths to 18, for example. He also penned in one of his blog posts on the ASCL website, though this decision has come quote here “out of the blue with no discussion with school and college leaders, and compared the idea to the launch of the national tutoring program.”

3:20:
Alex Wallace: Carol Vorderman is a big fan of the idea though, so there's always that.

3:24:
Sam Powell: As always, apart from that one time in November, but don't worry about that, we're joined by a trusted expert who is able to provide some great insight into the news with us. This month. Our guest is Professor Becky Francis, the Chief Executive of the Education Endowment Foundation.

3:38:
Alex Wallace: Hi, Becky, thank you very much for joining us today. And congratulations on your CBE. Can you please tell our listeners a little bit about yourself and your role within the sector?

3:47:
Professor Becky Frances: Well, I have followed an education, academic background largely but in the last sort of 10 years or so have had a bit more of a portfolio career and involved with various policy angles. My academic focus has always been on social inequality in education. And that has, of course drawn me to both impact and implementation. So then getting involved in more policy areas. And prior to my current role as Chief Executive of the Education Endowment Foundation, I was leading the Faculty of Education at UCL, the Institute of Education.

4:26:
Alex Wallace: So lots of experience! So with our first story this month, I think it'd be fair to say that this will require a significant amount of change to the school structure. The Education Endowment Foundation has been involved with a basic maths premium pilot and with that study in mind, what kind of funding levels do you imagine will be needed to facilitate this increased level of maths teaching?

4:48:
Professor Becky Francis: Around half of young people study towards some kind of maths qualification after 16, whether that's through A Level, functional maths or GCSE resits, and maths is actually the most popular A Level and that's been a real success from practitioners and policymakers actually over the last 15 years or so. Of course, addressing the other half of young people post-16, those who passed GCSE but aren't taking further maths, would be a very significant undertaking, and likely impossible without further new resources. As you said, we're currently evaluating the basic maths premium, which offers post-16 settings an additional £500 for each of their students studying towards their resits. At the moment, colleges don't get any additional funding for their students studying towards their GCSE maths resits. So we're looking at three different potential funding models, there's £500 up front, and then £250 up front, and 250 for every student achieving a grade four. And then the third model is 500, paid for every student achieving a grade four. And then we're trying to evaluate that to see whether one of those funding models are more effective than others at improving outcomes, if indeed any are. But the major resource needed for maths to 18 to be implemented is actually in the workforce, for which there's no short-term fix. A significant number of new maths teachers would be needed to be recruited, with resource spends on retaining and developing them as well. Some of it suggested that developments in technology can be used as a resource to provide that universal maths to 18 offer, you know, through digital online lessons and platforms and so on, but that also would require investment and qualified practitioners. So there's no quick fix here.

6:55:
Alex Wallace: I think you might have answered our second question really. We know that maths is one of the least recruited teacher subjects at the moment. We know there's a shortage of maths teachers in service now. And we know that also balancing teacher workload is a continual challenge. Will this increase in maths teaching stretch, potentially an overburdened workforce already? And what do you think are the implications that this may have on maths teachers, or the wider body of teaching or the delivery of maths as a subject?

7:23:
Professor Becky Francis: Well, the major challenge with implementing a universal ‘Maths to 18’ policy will be resourcing. Recruitment targets for math teachers have been consistently missed for the last few years and many maths lessons, particularly those for 16 to 19 year olds studying for resits, are already taught by a non-specialists maths teacher. And this is particularly the case for schools and colleges with higher levels of social disadvantage. The NFER research suggests that almost half of secondary schools have used non-specialists for at least some maths lessons. So without significant efforts to build bolster the workforce, any efforts to introduce maths to 18 will have knock-on effects to the wider workforce. And it will likely mean heavier workloads for many maths teachers, which won't help the retention challenge either. And of course, it will make an inevitable increase in the number of non-specialist maths teachers. So we'd really like to see a focus on improving maths education at all stages of a child's education journey, including by recruiting and developing more maths teachers at secondary level and providing more professional development primary teachers.

8:39:
Alex Wallace: I suppose this is a bit more of a not theoretical, but maybe a challenging question not challenging to you, but if GCSE maths attainment is improving, but pupils are not leaving with the math skills required within the workplace, does this pose the question that the math curriculum is not appropriate for the transition into the workplace? And is there potential more innovative choice or what could a more innovative choice be?

9:01:
Professor Becky Francis: Well, we really need to decide which areas of maths it is that we want to improve. As I said, you know, we actually have a large number of young people taking A Level and further maths, and then we have a set of young people doing GCSE retakes. If actually, we think that everybody needs higher maths, we need to decide what that looks like, who it is for, who it's helping, and whether or not that can be accommodated. What I think we should be focusing, on at least in the short term, is the quarter of young people who didn't achieve grade four or above in their maths GCSE last year. A majority will continue studying maths at post 16 through mandatory GCSE maths and English retakes, and of course, socially, economically disadvantaged pupils are disproportionately represented within the that group, as well as kids with SEND. Last year, though just one in five students retaking their maths GCSE went on to pass, and that proportion has remained stubbornly low since the policy was introduced in 2015. So it's support for these young people we should be prioritizing. Leaving education with a good grounding in maths as well as English of course, continues to be a key indicator of future life chances, and a good foundation in maths as necessary for flourishing in life work and citizenship. So this is really important. We know that keeping these young people in compulsory maths education for another couple of years and just hoping that that will do the trick, isn't enough. And with the conversion rates for compulsory retakes, so depressingly low. There's a danger that we are keeping a significant proportion of young people in compulsory maths education, only to brand them failures yet again, so this must be avoided both in current practice and in any future policy. And of course, debate continues about a relationship between GCSE and foundational qualifications and curricula, and the quality and support of GCSE retakes. And these debates I think, need re-energizing to be supported by evidence, which we hope that we at the EEF can provide help with, to drive policy and practice forward. We are realistic, of course to recognize that there's no quick fix here. But at the EEF, we are planning a funding round investigating effective practices and supporting GCSE retakes, which we hope will at least contribute to the debate.

11:48:
Sam Powell: Well, thank you for that, Becky. There's a lot of great food for thought there. And I'm sure this won't be the last time we discuss this topic. We'll take the time now to move on to our second news story for the day, which revolves around something that a lot of us have just had to kind of accept as a part of everyday life for the last few months. And that's strike action.

12:04:
Alex Wallace: The National Education Union announced their decision to strike over pay early this month. Teachers Pay which according to Jeff Barton, the General Secretary of the Association of School and College Leaders, has fallen by a fifth in real terms since 2010, as teachers pay has failed to keep up with inflation. Now, the NEU will hold seven days of strikes in February and March, affecting some 23,000 schools. However, there's a lot to unpick with any NEU results as their teachers, sixth form staff, and support staff members all voted in favour of strike action. However, only teaching staff in England and Wales and support staff in Wales have the turnout which meets the threshold strike. These results vary slightly from England to Wales. But over 90% of the ballot to teachers voted in favour of strike action. The NEU strikes will happen on a regional basis from the 1^st February through to the 16^th of March.

12:59:
Sam Powell: The Secretary of State for Education, Gillian Keegan is quoted as saying, “I'm very disappointed in the one union that has decided to go on strike. Our children don't deserve it. We need to keep teachers and children in school. You don't need to strike to get my attention. I will meet with people, I'll be as constructive as possible.”

13:15:
Alex Wallace: Dr. Mary Boustead and Kevin Courtney, joint General Secretaries of the National Education Union said “we have continually raised our concerns with successive education secretaries about teacher pay and support staff pay and its funding in schools and colleges, but instead of seeking to resolve the issue, they're sat on their hands. It is disappointing that the government prefers to talk about yet more draconian anti-strike legislation, rather than work with us to address the causes of strike action.”

13:45:
Sam Powell: It's worth noting that for the first time in their history, ASCL have recently voted to move towards a formal ballot to determine if they will take strike action or not. Because there's so many moving parts of this story. The Department of Education have recently updated their handling strike action in schools guidance document, a link to which you can find in the episode description.

14:02:
Alex Wallace: As we sit here in January 2023, strikes seemingly have become a part of everyday life, with transport strikes especially having ravaged the last few months. Ministers have claimed that they are keen to reach voluntary agreements with the sector's enacting strikes, but they reserve the right to create minimum requirements if these agreements do not come to pass.

14:25:
Sam Powell: On the 10th January, the government introduced the Strikes Minimum Service Levels Bill to the House of Commons. If passed, this bill would allow the Secretary of State to make regulations setting up the minimum service required in certain sectors during strikes, similar to systems already in place in Italy and Spain. Speaking to Channel Four fact check Katie Russell, who's a partner in the employment law team at Burgess Salmon outlined, and this is a quote from her here, “if the union fails to take all reasonable steps to ensure minimum service levels are met during any period of industrial action, then under the legislation, employers would have the right to sue the trade union for damages caused by the failure to take those steps”

15:00:
Alex Wallace: Alongside health, Fire and Rescue, transport and border security, education will be susceptible to these new restrictions on trade unions. However, many education leaders speaking to Schools Week were prepared to call the government's bluff. Sammy Wright the former social mobility commissioner and vice principal at Southmoor Academy in Sunderland, called the threats “nonsensical”, stressing that he couldn't see how the situation would work where you have all the students in the school, but none of the teachers.

15:27:
Sam Powell: Jon Chaloner, the CEO of GLF Schools, which was less of a tongue twister to get out than I thought was going to be actually, supported the point theorizing that by the time a focus group has been appointed, convened and worked on the content of a minimum service level, he would hope that the threat of strike action will have receded.

15:42:
Alex Wallace: I think it's fair to say that education has been through significant disruption over the last three years. And with leaders discussing strike actions, it feels like we're not out of the woods yet. Looking at the sector analytically, what are the main factors causing this volatility? And what are the changes and decisions that could reduce and protect the sector and those working in it?

16:02:
Professor Becky Francis: Well, while teacher pay is front and centre, there are a few interrelating factors that have led to this unprecedented move that scene all unions balancing strike. Pay is important and teachers certainly deserve to be compensated fairly for their work. The IFS analysis suggests that teacher pay has fallen in real terms since 2010. We're also of course, facing a recruitment and retention challenge, targets for teacher recruitment are regularly missed, and a third of new teachers leave within the first five years of joining the profession. Now, better financial rewards could help encourage new teachers to the profession. The evidence tells us, for example, that bonuses and enhanced pay can attract teachers to the most challenging schools even, let alone to the workforce as a whole. But it's also important to say money can't solve everything. Another motivation for the unrest at present is the quality of support and ongoing development that people receive throughout their career, particularly when they're recently qualified. It's especially important in England as over a quarter of teachers are early career teachers, and that's the second highest in the OECD. So investing in the development of teachers can not only support and enthuse them, but also of course, help raise standards. It's no accident that the highest achieving education systems in the world invest heavily in the learning of their teachers. So just to exemplify that in Singapore, teachers have an entitlement to 100 hours of professional development a year. The recent teacher development reforms that the DfE have been implementing are really welcome and will go a long way to supporting teachers as they progress in the profession. Workload is another key factor that's important. Teachers work some of the longest hours of any profession in the UK. So smarter feedback strategies guided by robust research on what teachers have found to work best. And one way that school leaders can make an immediate and positive difference to teachers workload. So there's a real range of different factors underpinning the issues about recruitment and retention, as well as driving, of course, the industrial unrest at the moment.

18:30:
Alex Wallace: Now we turn our attention to the news from December, that there will be a rise in Pupil Premium funding. The positive news here is that there's going to be an increase as of April this year. There will be an increase for primary pupils to the tune of £70, from £1395 to £1455 per pupil, and a rise of £50 per pupil for secondary pupils from £985 to £1035 whilst looked after children will go from £2410 to £2530. That's a rise of £120 in total.

19:09:
Sam Powell: The increased funding is not without its criticism, though, as the rate of inflation is still significantly higher than the proposed uplift in the payments. This will however, take total expenditure on Pupil Premium to £2.9 billion. And for those of you who will have to take math until you're 18, just to help you out. That's 2.9 times 10 to the ninth power. What?

19:29:
Alex Wallace: No more writing your own jokes from now on mate.

19:32:
Sam Powell: Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. That's fair enough.

19:34:
Alex Wallace: Let's move on swiftly, shall we? So Becky, with the new figures out in December regarding the pupil premium funding, an increase of £70 for primary pupils £50 for secondary and £120 for looked after children. How can schools use this increased budget for the most impact?

19:50:
Professor Becky Francis: Well, there's no doubt that schools are having to make increasingly difficult decisions about how to prioritize their pupil premium spending. According to the IFS, both school funding and the pupil premium have fallen in real terms since the academic year 2009 to 2010. And research from the Sutton Trust in 2021 found that around a third of head teachers are having to use the pupil premium funding to plug budget gaps elsewhere. This could of course, become more likely as school overheads including energy and food costs, and so on increase. So with that context, it was really welcomed to see the government recognize these challenges through an uplift to Pupil Premium spending. And as a time when resources are tight, it's more important than ever that schools use evidence as well as of course professional judgment when making crucial decisions about how to use the pupil premium effectively. By providing a useful starting place, school leaders can look at what's worked in the past, in conjunction with their professional judgment then and their knowledge of the school and its pupils, and then use that learning and knowledge to decide how to target their resources. So evidence at the heart of this is really important. And robust evidence from sources such as the EDF toolkit can support school leaders looking to identify high potential best bets, that could be effective in their setting. Evidence can also support effective implementation to know that doing things well, getting it right in the classroom is often just as important as what is the program or approach that's chosen. We encourage schools to consider a tiered approach to their pupil premium spending, focusing firstly, on quality of teaching, which we know makes the biggest difference to pupil progress and outcomes, and particularly for socially disadvantaged pupils. Secondly, focusing on high quality evidence-led academic interventions, catch up programs, and so forth. And then thirdly, wider strategies that address non-academic barriers to outcomes such as behaviour, attendance, wellbeing and so on. But as of course, school energy and food costs increase, it's really vital, that they're not forced to direct resources away from things which the evidence shows, are most likely to make the biggest difference to the attainment gap.

22:28:
Alex Wallace: Certainly lots to think about there. Becky, you wrote in your guide to Pupil Premium last year that COVID potentially reversed a decade of progress in closing the attainment gap between the most disadvantaged pupils and their non-disadvantaged peers. We often hear calls for more funding to help close the attainment gaps. Could this be a sort of silver bullet like many expect, and what are some of the other evidence back changes, that could be made to reduce the attainment gap both at school and policy level?

22:58:
Professor Becky Francis: Certainly more resources to support socio economically disadvantaged pupils will always be welcomed. But money alone isn't enough. Research on Educational disadvantage, has shown that there's no silver bullets, rather engaging with evidence, offers schools a valuable tool for understanding which practices and programs are most likely to deliver the greatest impact. So that focus is crucial. What we do know as I said, is that great teaching, the interaction between the adult and the child in the classroom, has the biggest impact on the learning of pupils, and particularly on those from socio economically disadvantaged backgrounds. So on a national level, recruiting, retaining and developing teachers, including, as we've discussed, subject specialist teachers, should be a central focus of any efforts to reduce educational inequality. Plus, of course, making sure that those teachers do end up in schools in socially disadvantaged areas rather than seeing, as we sadly see at the moment, trends and patterns in expertise across the country. We do have a wealth of evidence on effective interventions for pupils who are falling behind. Scaling those up so that all schools can benefit is a really crucial in terms of opportunities as well. We were really privileged during the pandemic to be able to support an intervention which EEF trials, we trialed this intervention twice, and shown that it was effective both times, the Nuffield only language intervention, which is working with young kids struggling with their early language development. This was taken and basically made nationally available during the years of the pandemic, which we're very proud about. And that was for reception aged kids. So of course, you know, schools can and do a lot to mitigate the effects of, poverty on learning and development. But of course, it would be naive of us not to recognize that factors outside of the school gates, such as access to regular meals and secure housing play a really significant part in education inequality. For many kids from low-income homes, their circumstances have become more severe due to the cost-of-living crisis. The past two years have seen more children and young people fall into poverty and become eligible for free school meals. It's now standing up almost one in four kids 22.5% of kids in England, who were eligible in January 2022. So I think the government must also make efforts to tackle the factors behind education inequality, widening wealth inequality will only make this harder given the incredibly strong relationship between family income and educational attainment.

26:02:
Alex Wallace: Brilliant, thank you. Ofsted will be inspecting how pupil premium is spent in 2023. And this will inevitably have an impact on what's happening in schools. But this issue should go further than accountability measures. What's the role that school culture can have in supporting disadvantaged pupils?

26:18:
Professor Becky Francis: Well, over 2 billion is spent on the pupil premium each year. So it is important that there's some degree of accountability in how it's spent. Schools are required to publish details about how they're spending their pupil premium grants, including, for example, referencing the evidence behind their decisions, which we think is a good way of adding accountability and prompting schools to look at the evidence as well, which as we've said, should be the starting point. So I guess within that it's right that Ofsted consider how well schools are supporting their disadvantaged pupils. But of course, it's also important to recognize that there's no one size fits all solution here. What's unique about the premium is that it's linked to individual pupils, allowing schools to target resources at the specific needs of individual children. Schools know their pupils best, so they should always have a degree of autonomy in deciding how to spend that Pupil Premium funding. And as you say, school culture is crucial in the effective implementation, actually of pretty much any approach to teaching and learning. One of the characteristics that distinguishes effective and less effective schools, in addition to what they implement, is how they put those new approaches into practice, that importance of implementation that I've already mentioned. We know that sustained improvements and meaningful change can only happen in classrooms when staff and senior leaders share a common understanding of their collective mission and vision. So when it comes to effective use of the pupil premium, there are a few steps that schools can take. First of all, diagnosing your pupils needs through a range of resources, including attainment data, of course, attendance data, observations and teacher feedback. Then once that data is in front of you, look at the trends for different year groups, classes, and so on. And also look at outliers to those trends. And then you can take strategies that address the trends, but also ensure that there's no child left behind. Once you've done that, you can look at the evidence to decide which approaches are most likely to be effective for your pupils. Implement any new strategy or approach with care, as I've said, ensuring that it's aligned to other school development plans and existing practices. So you're not introducing things that are going to be out of step with other things in the school. And then of course, crucially, monitor the ongoing success or otherwise on your pupil premium pupil outcomes, monitor the success of that strategy and adapt your approach where appropriate. And so I think that that's a good sort of, careful implementation and reflection approach, drawing on the evidence to secure good outcomes with your pupil premium.

29:24:
Sam Powell: As always, the news never stops. And while not everything can make the main segment, we do have some more stories for you.

29:30:
Alex Wallace: Starting off, we have the shake-up at the helm of the Social Mobility Commission, as Katharin Birbalsingh has stepped down of the government’s social mobilities arm.

29:38:
Sam Powell: Known to many as the star of the ITV documentary Britain’s Strictest Headmistress. On January 6, the eponymous leader penned an article in Schools Week announcing that she would be stepping down and leaving leadership of the commission to her deputy Alun Francis, who she called a social mobility superhero.

29:54:
Alex Wallace: Well, it may have been that very note that proves to be Birbalsingh’s downfall, however, saying in her article that “over the past year, I become increasingly aware that my propensity to voice opinions that are considered controversial puts the commission in jeopardy.”

30:10:
Sam Powell: Birbalsingh emphasized how she proposed a new approach for the Social Mobility Commission, focusing on being able to support smaller risers for a wider range of people. Instead of just focusing on those who have the ambition to go to Oxbridge. However, she felt that this approach had been misinterpreted by the media, and it led to public opinion of her being torpedoed.

30:26:
Alex Wallace: With one foot out the door, Birbalsingh noted that with her in charge, the work of the Commission would not be fairly analysed, and in her own words, claimed that in the future, should be more careful to craft her utterances and leave no room for misinterpreting her.

30:39:
Sam Powell: And finally, we'll leave you with news covering the Oak National Academy, and its current search for teachers for its subject expert groups.

30:47:
Alex Wallace: The application process launched on the 9th January and will close on the 30^th. Volunteers who join Oak’s initial subject expert groups on Maths, English Science, History, Geography and Music will be asked to advise and give feedback on all aspects of the content, including lesson resources.

31:06:
Sam Powell: Before you rush to send your application off, though, make sure that you meet all the necessary criteria. Current classroom teachers will need to have five or more years experience to apply, including at least three in subject leadership, whereas subject experts who are not currently teaching will need three or more years working in an education organization closely connected to schools.

31:23:
Alex Wallace: But if you meet all of those requirements, then you'll be able to, in the words of the Oak CEO, Matt Hood, “be instrumental in the development of oaks resources, with your work benefiting thousands of teachers and millions of pupils across the country.”

31:38:
Sam Powell: And if those strikes we mentioned earlier do start to become more and more commonplace, then chances are a lot of schools are going to have to start relying on the lessons produced by Oak, meaning that as subject experts, you'll become even more important. Well, there's the bell, meaning that's all the time we've got for today. Once again, we'd like to thank our guest Professor Becky Francis, for taking time out of her busy schedule to speak to us. Becky, is there anything you'd like to say to the audience before we go?

32:01:
Professor Becky Francis: Well, thanks so much for listening to me and giving me your time. To the teachers out there, thanks so much for the work you do. It's inspirational, the impact that you're having every day, and particularly over the course of the pandemic. In some ways, the pandemic has highlighted the double importance of what it is that teachers and schools do. The fact that we've lost so much ground during the pandemic shows the importance of schooling, and particularly to those most vulnerable kids. And so thank you for listening. And please do put evidence at the heart of your work. And we aim to support and help you.

32:42:
Sam Powell: And as always, thanks again to all of you at home, work, on the bus, wherever you're listening. We look forward to getting to speak to you again next month.

32:50:
Alex Wallace: And that's not all you can expect from us in February, as that's when the registration for the Schools and Academies Show London opens. The event will take place on Wednesday the 17th of May at the London Excel. There, you'll be able to hear more from Becky Francis and many other great speakers.

33:04:
Sam Powell: In the meantime, though, make sure to visit the Schools and Academies Show website and register your interest. This way you'll be informed the moment that registration goes live. You should also be following the event on Twitter for frequent updates @SAA_Show. And be sure to check out the LinkedIn page as well. Links as always will be in the description of the episode. And we're really looking forward to seeing you in London what promises to be another great show.

33:28:
Alex Wallace: Well, that's another episode in the can and that's all from us this month. Until next time, goodbye everybody.

33:33:
Sam Powell: Thanks for listening. We'll see you real soon folks.

33:50:
Sam Powell: This episode was produced and edited by Alessandro Bilotta, Sam Powell and Alex Wallace.

34:04:
Sam Powell: Look, January was a tough month, alright. Creative juices maybe not flowing as well as they used to. So instead of any kind of clever skit, you just get me midway through my run this month. Don't worry. It's not all you're gonna get. We do still have a bit more of the interview with Becky Francis, which will be coming up right after this. If you’re somehow one of the few people who didn't know, I'm running the London Marathon on April 23, supporting the NSPCC. There'll be a link in the description to donate. Yes, this is shameless self-advertising, but one it's for charity. And two, what else are podcasts for? Thanks again for listening. We'll see you soon.

34:44:
Alex Wallace: If strikes are to be repeated, what will be the impact on pupils learning?

34:49:
Professor Becky Francis: Well, we know that of course school absence does have crucial impact on pupils learning and of course, we saw that through the pandemic, and that widening of the gap for attainment that we saw over that period as well. But there's no doubt that school leaders and staff want to minimize any potential impacts on the pupils in their care too. So given the extensive disruption that pupils have faced as a result of the pandemic, it's doubly imperative that the government and unions work together to find a suitable resolution to the challenges that we've been discussing to avoid further school closures.